tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post5092464122797822641..comments2024-01-22T13:04:59.388-08:00Comments on THE BING CROSBY NEWS ARCHIVE: THE CENSORING OF HOLIDAY INNUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-66663836097588031282021-12-03T22:56:30.107-08:002021-12-03T22:56:30.107-08:00Agreed! We can't learn from our history if we ...Agreed! We can't learn from our history if we do not acknowledge it. Jerry Bradshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11616326883819931256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-59114885986414204082020-04-05T23:36:58.479-07:002020-04-05T23:36:58.479-07:00Remember 'unknown' this was also a differe...Remember 'unknown' this was also a different time. He also refused to play in Pennies From Heaven if Louis Armstrong didn't get equal billing.DerBingle0377https://www.blogger.com/profile/11140382806894493921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-54547635716405898172020-01-28T04:56:56.893-08:002020-01-28T04:56:56.893-08:00I think it is time to move on. There are additiona...I think it is time to move on. There are additional discussions that we could have but I see that we would accomplish nothing. I don't think that we should live in the past. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-57706197374490807322020-01-27T21:55:43.094-08:002020-01-27T21:55:43.094-08:00"Do you recall a tree grows in Brooklyn?... l..."Do you recall a tree grows in Brooklyn?... look at the background of the Irish and how they were also held in servitude. Look at happened to the Jewish people down through history, especially in the last hundred years."<br /><br />Here's a first: vulgar, white-racist minstrelsy defended with a citation of Betty Smith's poignant, sensitive novel of America's melting pot, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn."<br /><br />Next, shall we defend the KKK as being no worse than Fisk University? After all, both exist to teach black people a lesson.<br /><br />No, really. Their goals are practically indistinguishable. Not only that, but the KKK wears sheets, and Fisk students sleep under sheets.<br /><br />"We cannot condemn the KKK without also condemning Fisk University," brays the stubborn jack-ass.<br />Bill Housdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832453283657120471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-36604024662388591432020-01-27T21:33:05.963-08:002020-01-27T21:33:05.963-08:00"You seem to want to perpetuate the past.&quo..."You seem to want to perpetuate the past."<br /><br />Well, I was--say, that reminds me of another movie. Have you seen "Gaslight"? Something you said reminded me of that movie.Bill Housdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832453283657120471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-46993427333437229122020-01-27T15:40:34.454-08:002020-01-27T15:40:34.454-08:00Those were poorly executed caricatures as well.
...Those were poorly executed caricatures as well. <br /><br />Yet none of them have the history of Blackface in the States. It's a form of degrading, dehumanizing "entertainment" used to convince white people that Blacks were stupid, one dimensional fools who were happy to be enslaved. That we were better off for it. Understand that Blackface was specifically designed to alleviate any feelings of white guilt, and to reinforce systems that encouraged the subjugation, disenfranchisement and even slaughter of Black men, women and children. And understand that for a good hundred years it was THE most popular form of American entertainment. Let the magnitude of that settle in.<br /><br />Here's what you fail to understand, Bob. It literally doesn't matter that you're not offended. It's somewhat alarming that you don't get it, but it's ultimately irrelevant. You don't have to live with the history. It gets to be "just entertainment" for you, and you can move on. But this debate doesn't live or die at the foot of people like you, who lack the empathy and understanding of other people's pain. The conversation has long ago moved beyond the confines of the callous. Another wonderful change of pace from the world of 1942.<br />Jaquenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08528343260461489450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-31168081962248352182020-01-27T14:40:20.191-08:002020-01-27T14:40:20.191-08:00I am a bit older than you my friend and I have see...I am a bit older than you my friend and I have seen a number of movies made in the 30's (and later) depicting criminals and gangsters as Italian or with Italian names. I recall many films where the local drunk was Irish or had an Irish name. Do you recall a tree grows in Brooklyn? I am simply showing that all groups were shown in some sort of a negative light. Now Mr. self righteous I grew up in a mix neighborhood where we never heard the word 'White Privilege'. Perhaps where you grew up you were indoctrinated with those thoughts. We did not know the difference in color and never thought of it. You seem to know all of the derogatory names that I don't know. Where did you learn them. You sound like an educator that spent his adult life indoctrinating students with hate. If you want take a look at the background of the Irish and how they were also held in servitude. Look at happened to the Jewish people down through history, especially in the last hundred years. Unfortunately as humans we are not perfect, perhaps you are but the rest of us are not. We all realize that slavery was a travesty however as a country we are trying to correct the injustice. You seem to want to perpetuate the past. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-38639703102670183352020-01-27T13:17:43.502-08:002020-01-27T13:17:43.502-08:00bobc, it looks like you will never admit to the ha...bobc, it looks like you will never admit to the harm caused by white privilege.<br /><br />At age 68 and an Irish/English-American, I can't recall one movie depicting micks as drunk$, much less entire movies cast with nothing but, say, Africans in whiteface depicting Irish Americans as all being drunken bums who assault, rob and rape. (Every blackface tale has good and bad simpleton characters.]<br /><br />Go ahead and laugh at the pickininnies, the loafers, and the licentious, larcenous, drunken, simpleminded nigras. It is your prerogative, and it is a rejection of common human decency that makes you smile.<br /><br />What are you waiting for, bobc? Is it for a self-professed "black person" to post happy thoughts here about blackface humiliation so you can claim a false sanctification? Because that is the typical response of white privilege. <br /><br />No one is censoring (nor 'censuring) the movie for adults-only consumption. Your view that children should see Africans degraded in art by a segregated, no-justice society is another measure of foolish white privilege.Bill Housdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832453283657120471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-78242015758111359612020-01-27T01:53:50.446-08:002020-01-27T01:53:50.446-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bill Housdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832453283657120471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-9300837193437922602020-01-26T19:20:54.165-08:002020-01-26T19:20:54.165-08:00I don't know what to say about this. In all me...I don't know what to say about this. In all me years I never considered it degrading or anything else about black face. But I guess on what is being said I guess we should censure all films that depict Italians as being gangsters or films where an Irish man is portrayed as a drunk. There are many films that portray various ethnic groups in one way or another, it's strictly entertainment. Let me just say, I am Italian and take no offense because I realize that it only a film and a story. Crosby was a great friend of many black entertainers and musicians. As often as he could he would include Armstrong in his films. We was great friends with the Mils brothers. I don't think that we should look to harshly at the Lincoln number, just listen to the words. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-25359850598094487302020-01-26T18:57:08.832-08:002020-01-26T18:57:08.832-08:00Well said and very thought provoking. Thank you fo...Well said and very thought provoking. Thank you for commenting.David Loboscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870831249761911028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-89355632676225864862020-01-26T18:54:10.039-08:002020-01-26T18:54:10.039-08:00Let me provide the perceptive of a Black person, b...Let me provide the perceptive of a Black person, because I honestly am not sure any other had previously comment here. Let me preface by saying that I have been well aware of the history of Blackface since my teen years in the mid to late 90s. I will also preface that I am speaking for myself, not in behalf of every human of African decent.<br /><br />I am a Christmas nut. It is, by far, my favorite holiday. I am also a film lover. Like untold many, I’ve loved Bing’s rendition of “White Christmas” for basically all my life. I found out ages ago that it’s film debut was in Holiday Inn, but I didn’t get around to actually seeing the film until my 30s.<br /><br />Like I said prior, I’m an appreciator of Film, and from all eras. So I’m familiar with some of the more complicated social, cultural and racial issues that arise when watching classic era film. This isn’t new territory for me.<br /><br />And yet none of that prepared me for the emotional gut punch delivered by the Abraham number in this film. Prior to that sequence I was gingerly coasting along with the film, enjoying its light, breezy tone and some truly wonderful performances. But that Blackface sequence, complete with the cut to the already stereotyped mammy character and her “pickaninny” kids, was searing to witness. Honestly painful.<br /><br />The sequence feels like a betrayal. It adds nothing to the plot, seems totally incongruous with the characters up to that point, and in the context of today is a needlessly jarring blight on an otherwise delightful film. Almost as egregious? Watching Bing’s character ramble on about how well the sequence landed with the audience and suggesting they do another Blackface routine for Valentine’s Day.<br /><br />I support any broadcaster or streaming services decision to remove the sequence. It in no way aids or assists the film. It’s presence guarantees the infliction of, at bare minimum, extraordinary discomfort. It might be difficult for some white people to truly grasp out deeply, deeply offensive and painful this kind of material is (and yes, was even then to some. Let’s stop with the history rewrite that suggests everyone back then was just having a gay ole Blackface time. Even in the context of the times plenty knew better).<br /><br />But I do believe the original cut should remain commercially available. All films should be available commercially in their uncut, uncensored form. That way those who insist, for whatever reason, on watching the Blackface version can simply seek out a Blu-ray or DVD and have the completed version they desire.<br /><br />A win-win for all.<br />Jaquenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08528343260461489450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-68472023715188096102019-02-08T12:19:03.975-08:002019-02-08T12:19:03.975-08:00IIRC, only Bing and Eleanor were in blackface. Tha...IIRC, only Bing and Eleanor were in blackface. That was the point — Bing was hiding Eleanor from Fred. But maybe I’m remembering insufficiently. <br /><br />He did blackface in Swingtime, though... the “Bojangles of Harlem” number. Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02647368427183591830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-68454367529836628602018-12-21T07:02:20.983-08:002018-12-21T07:02:20.983-08:00David Lobosco, cannot agree with you MORE. We try...David Lobosco, cannot agree with you MORE. We try to change history by scrubbing it out, this can’t be done and you are right that .........to admit as human beings we do make mistakes. The movie is wonderful, it was 1942 after all. I don’t agree with tearing down Confederate statues either. That time was important in the development of our country’s history. In order to be a great nation, we did make mistakes. But if we continue to do this “scrubbing” what is next? Next is taking the Nazi out of the history books, that would be disrespectible to the millions of Jews who lost their lives, we need to remember so we don’t make those mistakes again. Don’t mean to rant,but political correctness is the worst censorship.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916140833901999868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-19434174944277862232018-12-07T15:48:11.670-08:002018-12-07T15:48:11.670-08:00Well said Linda. Also I think of Bing's record...Well said Linda. Also I think of Bing's records made with the Mills Brothers in the 30's. Can't get any better than that. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-78182173448030848052018-12-07T15:45:47.074-08:002018-12-07T15:45:47.074-08:00Thanks for the Fred A. Note. I had read that he wa...Thanks for the Fred A. Note. I had read that he was involved but backed out at some point, was not sure why. Just my opinion but it would have been a great picture instead of just excellent. Perhaps in the future when they develop character replacement in films we will see how it would have turned out. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-22313747140617361592018-12-07T13:31:02.532-08:002018-12-07T13:31:02.532-08:00Hi Bob,
Well said! Even though this site is to cel...Hi Bob,<br />Well said! Even though this site is to celebrate the memory of Bing Crosby, the blackface he did in a few movies is a hot button issue, and I wrote the article to share my beliefs. As long as the comments remain cordial, I think the back and forth is useful. <br /><br />Other than that, let's celebrate Bing! I agree with your comment on Fred Astaire instead of Danny Kaye. Astaire was sent the script and Bing wanted him, but Astaire's wife had just died and he took some time off.David Loboscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870831249761911028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-1737458604241214482018-12-07T13:20:14.608-08:002018-12-07T13:20:14.608-08:00Thanks Linda. As an old Crosby fan it annoys me to...Thanks Linda. As an old Crosby fan it annoys me to see some of these comments. That entire generation, both black and white gave more to this country than the current one. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-32858323814358535002018-12-07T12:33:23.558-08:002018-12-07T12:33:23.558-08:00I am as guilty as the next person. This site shoul...I am as guilty as the next person. This site should be a site to discuss Bing's films, whether you enjoyed them or not. Was his singing up to par, was he a good entertainer. In stead we are getting involved in political nonsense that we can indulge in other sites. Why can't we in leave things alone and enjoy. My thought for the day is Fred Astaire should have been in White Christmas instead of Danny Kaye. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-31453817959188766862018-12-07T12:20:59.131-08:002018-12-07T12:20:59.131-08:00If anyone here doesn't know when Louis Armstro...If anyone here doesn't know when Louis Armstrong stood up against racism, here is a link to an article about his protest against segregation and the events in Little Rock in 1957. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/opinion/23margolick.html<br />Between them, Louis Armstrong and Bing Crosby did more to change popular attitudes toward race than most politicians, Armstrong through his transformative genius, and Crosby through his own example, as probably the most popular entertainer in the country, of honest love and respect for Armstrong himself and other black artists, who were always addressed with courtesy on his radio show. Its easy to be dismissive of this (and probably it's inevitable that modern day people will be) but it was a statement, and was received as one. Linda J. Sandahlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00287596876090761101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-74938656052041232552018-12-07T08:55:17.894-08:002018-12-07T08:55:17.894-08:00Bill, let's take it for what it was, entertain...Bill, let's take it for what it was, entertainment. You like to stir the pot but seem to forget that all through history, unfortunately, the things that you describe have occurred. Every once in a while we have to put bitterness and hate behind us and appreciate the life that we have. As I have mentioned many times the Italians have been portrayed as Mafia, Irish as drunks, Jews as money hoarders in films. Do we accept as entertainment or should we band the films. Read a little Irish history and see how they were treated. bobchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04481414836001364935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-40999317568206061432018-12-07T08:40:18.377-08:002018-12-07T08:40:18.377-08:00Hi Bill,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying...Hi Bill,<br />I agree with a lot of what you are saying until the end though about blackface depicts African American adults lazy, thieving, amoral, alcoholic, and licentious. If you watch the blackface number Bing did in "Holiday Inn", it does not show any of that.<br /><br />I do not equate blackface as showing African Americans as lazy, thieving, amoral, alcoholic, and licentious. If you can pull that from the "Abraham" then those are your own thoughts.<br /><br />I do agree that blackface is outdated, and I do not like it, but leave old films alone - they are a product of their time.David Loboscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870831249761911028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-22161559930109115432018-12-07T08:36:26.540-08:002018-12-07T08:36:26.540-08:00I figured I'd chime in. I am surprised to be g...I figured I'd chime in. I am surprised to be getting comments 8 years after I published it. AMC does not even show old movies anymore. Blackface is a difficult topic. While I feel it is an outdated and a racist thing in 2018, I do feel there was nothing derogatory in what film makers did in 1942. Yes, I feel uneasey when I see it now, but as for editing the movie I disagree. Leave the scene it to show what was accepted in 1942. If we edit that movie then we should also ban the Charlie Chan movies, and all movies that show different views of people then as to what it is now.<br /><br />Blackface is wrong, but it is also wrong to censor or ban a movie for it. David Loboscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870831249761911028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-34364409994565319662018-12-06T06:22:23.597-08:002018-12-06T06:22:23.597-08:00With all due respect, intention is very different ...With all due respect, intention is very different from impact. Just because blackface was never intended to be disrespectful or hurtful, doesn't mean it wasn't hurtful. I'm not saying the movie should be censored (it's actually one of my favorites, though I am uncomfortable with that scene)... I think this can be a useful conversation about how different groups of people have been portrayed in film and entertainment, and how we have grown as a society. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt any African-Americans were involved in producing or creating this film, so how do we know it actually "demonstrates admiration" if only white people were involved in the process?Meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801297382999921901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969706531075939050.post-8806462603160059552018-12-05T15:01:01.507-08:002018-12-05T15:01:01.507-08:00Let's be clear. Louis Armstrong was financiall...Let's be clear. Louis Armstrong was financially secure by the end of the Roaring 20s. His rise to super-stardom in the 1930s gave him a soapbox that no one could have taken from him-had he chosen to take a stand.<br /><br />Armstrong and Crosby may have been tacitly breaking down color barriers on a personal , do-as-I-do level, but they both rode the popular rails on that journey. When did either actually take a public stand against lynching laws and despotic segregation in the 1920s, the 1930s, and the 1940s?<br /><br />No one suggested "banning" movies, burning the prints. A racist scene was excised from a movie billed as family entertainment. The 'why' of that is not rocket science.<br /><br />This is 2018, not 1935. If any person still enjoys watching degrading racist caricatures, maybe that person is simply too callous to understand that the only "message" blackface conveys is that white people believe black theatrical roles should be limited to white people in roles portraying black American adults and children as being lazy, thieving, amoral, alcoholic, and licentious. Bill Housdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832453283657120471noreply@blogger.com